Hey Flobby

[Anasazi]

You ever get that 338 Lapua ? :tippy:

Snipers Seek More Range

August 5, 2008: There is a big push in the U.S. Army and Marine Corps to get a sniper rifle that can consistently get kills out to 1,800 meters. The current 7.62mm round is good only to about 800 meters. There are three options available here. The most obvious one is to use a 12.7mm sniper rifle. But these are heavier (at 30 pounds) and bulkier than 7.62mm weapons, but can get reliable hits out to 2,000 meters.

Another option is to use more powerful, but not much larger round. For example, you can replace the barrel and receiver of the $6,700 M24 sniper rifle for about $4,000, so that it can fire the .300 Winchester Magnum round. This is longer (at 7.62 x 67mm) than the standard 7.62x51mm round, and is good out to 1,200 meters. Another option is to replace the barrel and receiver of the M24 sniper rifles to handle the .338 (8.6mm) Lapua Magnum round. Thus you still have a 17 pound sniper rifle, but with a round that can hit effectively out to about 1,600 meters.

Snipers in Iraq, and especially Afghanistan, have found the Lapua Magnum round does the job at twice the range of the standard 7.62x51mm round. The 8.6mm round entered use in the early 1990s, and became increasingly popular with police and military snipers. Dutch snipers have used this round in Afghanistan with much success, and have a decade of experience with these larger caliber rifles. British snipers in Afghanistan are also using the new round, having converted many of their 7.62mm sniper rifles.

Recognizing the popularity of the 8.6mm round, Barrett, the pioneer in 12.7mm sniper rifles, came out with a 15.5 pound version of its rifle, chambered for the 8.6mm.

[Flobalob]

No I never got it, came very close though. At the end of the day I came to the conclusion that my P14 in 7mm rem mag was good enough for 99% of the long range shots that I am ever likely to take. Things have changed quite a bit since then, I have a dealers licence now and can legally modifiy and test fire weapons on my own property. I have just about finished in getting the workshop to my satisfaction and spend much of my time rebuilding WW2 smg's, they are great fun. I specialise in selling parts kits and mags for these here in Canada and am doing quite well. The only problem I have had is with the thieves in the post office system that steal my parcels. So far I have lost about $2000 worth of parts shipped from the US. I am using a courier service now, and so far so good, but it costs more for the service.

[Anasazi]

I had to ask since the 338 has earned itself such an incredable rep - almost defys belief even though it is probably all true and well earned.

No doubt that class of cartriges will be expanding as interest grows.

(Are you doing any PPsh's ?)

:tiphat:

[Flobalob]

Yes PPSh 41's. My favourite smg is the Suomi Konepistooli 31, fantastic design and craftsmanship, and also the most accurate of them all.

[Flobalob]

http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/kp_Suomi_1.jpg

http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/kp_Suomi_2.jpg


They have quick change barrels and barrel jackets. The trigger group is also removable as a single unit. The tollerances are tight so as to make possible the use of a vaccum valve at the rear of the action to control the rate of fire. They take 71 round drums, 36 round sticks and 50 round box mags.

I am in the process of building one at the moment. The plan is to submit this "prototype" to the CFC for approval. If approved I will buy up every M31 parts kit in the states that I can get my hands on and sell them as working open bolt semi auto smg's with a new Canadian made reciever.

[Anasazi]

Kewl - what about mags ?

I have had a kind of 'retro' hankering for the Brit Lanchaster or the similar German MP 18 cause of all the brass - kinda looks 'Steam Punk' that way.

There are display guns from IMA but I'd prefer the real deal -

http://www.ima-usa.com/index.php/cPath/1_214_58

:redneck:

http://www.galatiinternational.com/frankmachinegunday/32-landcaster.jpg

[Flobalob]

Yes they are nice but bloody expensive. What do you mean, what about the mags ? The suomis cost me $60 per kit,Here's one as they come.


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315/Orriblebastard/May03972.jpg

[Anasazi]

The Soumis look as though they are a notch or two above mass produced stampings - it looks as though there was some actual machining done.

:tippy:

Regardless of the particular class of mag-fed weapons you want to talk about it tends to work out as 'what you see is what you get', ie: the one you get with the weapon is the last one you're going to see ..... or it will be prohibitively expensive.

I knew a fellow down in Scottsdale some years back (he's dead now) who was well connected class III machinegun dealer and was the sole importer of Swiss military rifles. Understandably the rifles themselves weren't cheap but the price of additional magazines would make your head spin - and for many weapons extra mags are simply unobtainable.


My bet is the one you get is about all you will get.

:(

Would this be 'restoreable' ?

http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/products_id/97

[Flobalob]

The suomis were very expensive to produce, this is why they were phased out. The ones I have ( apart from the recievers of course ) are like new.

The suomi mags are pleantiful and cheap. The drums cost $25 and the sticks under $10

If it's what they say it is then it would be restoreable, itv would need a new reciever and bolt, and maybe a barrel too. I think there is a good chance a sten bolt would work. What I find suspicious though is the price, it's too cheap.Those things usually cost an arm and a leg.

[Anasazi]

On the Lank; IMA sells spare barrels (oddly enough). :dunno:

Winging a guess I'd have to say the WW II Soumis' and the WW II Italian Berretas' are probably on par in terms of expence and quality. I owned a Schmeisser once and though it was a fairly elaborate production it was almost entirely stampings which must have brought the per/unit cost way down over the long haul.

Outside of CQB I see little use for SMG's - the US M4 carbine supercedes standard sub guns by virtue of the 5.56 cartridge but it too is an 'up-close-and-personal' weapon. I read recently on strategy page that the US is now issueing M4's to the rear eschalon troops, in some cases replacing their hand guns in favor of the carbine.

And where the Hell do you do your shopping - Shotgun News' or trade publications ? :confused:

[Flobalob]

The berretas are nice, but the suomi has the edge in quality, it's also very accurate for an smg, the most accurate of them all, and takes that nice big drum mag. The only thing that lets it down is the weight, but you can't have everything I suppose.

I do all my shopping on the net. It's surprising what discounts you can get if you ask.

[Anasazi]

I can only suppose, but unless the Soumi fires from a closed bolt you would have to think the MP5 would have the accuracy edge over the Soumi ..... on the other hand perhaps the difference is so minescule it is moot.

I've fired the MP5/S and was impressed - so far I've had no exposure to the Soumi.

:dunno:

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/d/22086-5/K32suomi7418.jpg
k31 Soumi

[Anasazi]

http://www.a-human-right.com/ppsh.html

:redneck: :wine: